THE CONVERSION OF KA‘AHUMANU Q&A
WITH DANIEL AKIYAMA AND VICTORIA NALANI KNEUBUHL

Daniel Akiyama: Why do you write plays?

Victoria Nalani Kneubuhl: Why do I write plays? I began in a playwriting class I took because I wanted something different to do. I knew nothing about theatre. I took a second class from Dennis Carroll, and fell into a world that was challenging, meaningful and fulfilling. Dennis was a significant influence and without his nurturing, I would never have become a writer. Through his mentoring, I came to see the theatre as a special place/space in our world. For me, theatre is still a conduit through which mystery and magic may enter our lives and an art form that can still contribute to significant social change. The communion of performer and audience and the synergy that is possible in this exchange is something ancient and timeless. I am honored to be a part of this tradition.

Akiyama: Tell me a little about how The Conversion of Ka‘ahumanu came to be written.

Kneubuhl: I wrote the play as a directed study with Dennis Carroll when I was a graduate student in theatre and the University of Hawaiʻi. At the time, I had a part-time job (one of three) at the Mission Houses Museum. As part of my job, I was in a living history performance program. One of the things we interpreted in the program was the interaction of missionaries and Hawaiians. I had to do an immense amount of research to be a part of that program, so I decided to put it to use in my directed studies project. The play was also heavily influenced by the British feminist plays I happen to be studying at the time. I incorporated many of their stage values: women characters, women of different social classes, near equal stage time for each character with everyone as a protagonist, and of course, a focus on the meaningful role of women in the world.

Akiyama: At what point did the title go from The Conversion to The Conversion of Ka‘ahumanu, and what caused that change?

Kneubuhl: At some point, I cannot remember when, I realized that the title, “The Conversion,” conveyed nothing. It might easily suggest a play about football or someone exchanging one currency for another. By adding Kaʻahumanu’s name to the title, it conveyed so much more. 

Akiyama: This play has been remounted and revived multiple times by Kumu Kahua, has had an international tour, been produced across the state and on the continent, and was adapted for public radio. Why does this play have such longevity? Have you noticed shifts or changes in the way audiences over the years respond to this play?

Kneubuhl: This play is now over thirty years old. I am not sure why it has had such a long shelf life. The play takes place in some of the most difficult years in our history and deals with a controversial subject: the introduction of Christianity in Hawaiʻi by the Protestant Missionaries. A recent reading of Act I of the play generated a lively discussion about Kaʻahumanu’s role in the overthrow of the ʻai kapu. I have noticed that over the years, audiences are much more informed about this time period, and that the events of the period still evoke strong opinions and emotions. I think it is still hard for us to understand many of the decisions that the Hawaiian aliʻi made during the early nineteenth century, and hard for us to fully comprehend the tremendous pressure they were under. And, sometimes, as playwrights, it takes us a long time to understand what we have written. It actually took me more than a decade to realize that underneath the “history” of my play I was also writing about the human capacity for compassion, understanding, and personal change. I do hope this has something to do with the play’s longevity.

Akiyama: What’s the story I remember you telling, about a performance when it began to rain during Ka‘ahumanu’s kanikau in Act Two?

Kneubuhl: We were performing the play in American Samoa at the Community College in Mapusanga. Leo Akana was playing Kaʻahumanu. When she began the chant, it started to pour. It seemed to come out of nowhere. The rain was so deafeningly heavy that the actresses could not be heard. We had to stop the play and resume when the downpour subsided. Leo used to wear a beautiful lei niho palaoa when she performed. I think it was a family heirloom. She told me that right before the chant and the sudden rain, the lei niho palaoa got very warm and started to pulsate. Also, we had left the backstage doors open for ventilation, and during the deluge, Dale Daigle (the director), and I had to use sticks to chase toads out of the backstage area. I remember laughing and saying to Dale that this was a once in a lifetime directing experience. One of the toads did manage to make it on stage. Thankfully none of the audience noticed it, but the actresses did. It was a great theatre adventure.

[Note: A similar moment occurred at a dress rehearsal for the 2002 Kumu Kahua revival of The Conversion of Ka‘ahumanu — as Nyla Ching-Fujii, playing Ka‘ahumanu, chanted in Act II, it began to rain.]

Akiyama: Has the pandemic changed your writing? (In terms of your content or your process, or both?)

Kneubuhl: The pandemic has not changed my process (perhaps I should say, non-process) of writing at all. I consider myself an extremely undisciplined writer. I can procrastinate, invent distractions and find it hard to settle into a project for which I have no deadline. I can also become completely engaged and not want to do anything else except work on a piece of writing. I have no explanation or justification for my writing behavior, and actually, I am always surprised that I am able to get anything done. During this pandemic, I did find myself writing a play because I consciously realized I needed an escape. I wrote it very quickly and without my usual drawn out thinking process. I told myself it would be a good exercise in reviewing all those elements that playwrights need to juggle. I keep feeling like I am not getting anything done, but when I look back over the last two years I have finished two plays, a short story and a documentary script to the backdrop of taking care of seven sheep and five dogs. I guess I could be wrong.

Akiyama: Conversion had been planned for a full production in the spring of 2020, but when Kumu Kahua had to pivot online, Conversion became their first digital production. Were you able to catch this version, and did the online production reveal anything new or interesting about your script?

Kneubuhl: I was very pleased with the digital production of The Conversion. I think it was the first digital adventure for the theatre. While it was not like a full production, I thought the play was “there” because of the careful direction and the commitment of the actresses. The one thing I was very happy with was the pacing. I am not sure why but lately paying attention to the structural elements of pacing has become important to me: when the action moves forward, when there is punctuation, when there is space.